Roger Phillips: If you watched 'Embarrassing Illnesses' on television last night you'll have discovered more about stammering, with various techniques to alleviate the problem featured. One of those watching with interest was Stuart Ford who's a stammerer who's involved in organising a special conference on the issue on Merseyside later this year. Stuart joins me with fellow stammerers Eddie Grayley and Les Jones, who met while attending therapy at the Willy Russell Centre for Stammering. Now Stuart, first of all, for those who missed it, just to explain what the programme was focussing on.
Stuart Ford: Roger, it was just about stammering really. There were a few courses shown, two intensive courses, one down in Sussex and one in London, and I think the programme did show that there is no cure for stammering. It needs lots of hard work and dedication from the therapist and the stammerer.
Roger Phillips: So you'd still call yourself a stammerer, although people listening to you speaking just then would've - where's his stammering going on? You've found a way of treating yourself in a way, not curing it but treating it.
Stuart Ford: Well, people in work would know me as a stammerer certainly, Roger. I have made a lot of progress and I feel that by working at it you do continue to make progress, but I do call myself a stammerer, yes.
Roger Phillips: The Willy Russell Centre has helped quite a bit...
Stuart Ford: Absolutely, it's fantastic.
Roger Phillips: Just explain what goes on there, and how it helps.
Stuart Ford: Well, me and these lads here have all been on an intensive there and we also follow up on a Thursday night with extra speech therapy. What we tend to concentrate on is communication skills - learning to speak more slowly, to maintain eye contact, and various other things that we use, as normal speakers use, normal good communicators use. As stammerers we tended to forget all those and look away and put in lots of interjections, ehs and ums, and of course our stammer became much worse as a result.
Roger Phillips: Now Les, I believe you found a breathing technique you saw, a particular breathing technique.
Les Jones: Yes, it's called costal breathing. And it will help but it is at the end of the day only a technique and the hard part is obviously taking it outside and using it effectively enough.
Roger Phillips: Yes, it's easy enough in a way to practice it at the Centre but coming outside and using is as an everyday part of your life is difficult.
Les Jones: That's right, yes.
Roger Phillips: But.. I can imagine it's very easy for a stammerer to shut themselves away and say, "Well, I won't socialise with people, I'll just stick with myself", not have to talk to anybody. You made a jump to actually come to the Centre and get working on it. What made you make that - what forced you to make the jump.
Les Jones: I attended many other speech clinics over the years when I was younger, only there wasn't as much understanding of it I believe as there is now. And I learnt more at this Willy Russell ... or rather I've achieved more than I had in all those other previous ones when I was younger.
Roger Phillips: Is it frustrating if someone sitting listening to you when you can't get a word out ends words for you - or ends sentences for you.
Les Jones: Oh yes.
Roger Phillips: And can we all who don't stammer help people by just patiently waiting?
Les Jones: Exactly, yes.
Roger Phillips: And eventually the words will come.
Les Jones: That's right, yes.
Roger Phillips: Do you get the mickey taken out of you a lot? I mean, is that a problem to deal with, socially?
Les Jones: When I was younger it happened a lot in school, although not really now, I must admit. People are usually a lot - very understanding of it now.
Roger Phillips: I think that's probably true about not just stammerers, I think people on the whole are becoming more aware that we all have a disability of some sort or other and if you don't understand somebody else's they're not going to understand yours, however small or large it is. Eddie, now you know something about ... well you all do, but if I could talk to you about the conference that's coming up, do you know when it's going to be, what's going to happen, that sort of thing.
Eddie Grayley: Oh yes, it will happen in September [2001]. It starts the seventh of September which is on the Friday evening, about four o'clock it will begin, and then it's all day Saturday. Now, we also carry on to Sunday but it also involves children. We let the parents of the children bring all the children on the Sunday, although it will also carry on with the grown-ups as well - the main thing about Sunday is the children.
Roger Phillips: I think it's really good you do that, and you wouldn't want to bring them on the Friday and Saturday because they might get drunk at the party on the Friday night - but they're also going to get bored silly with the speeches and all the kind of ... Now are you going to have ... will it be speeches, or will it be just workshops, what form will it take?
Roger Phillips: It will be everything. Now I haven't put my glasses on to read what's here - off my head I can remember workshops and some of them will be the likes of small talk, because the likes of me and others, we sort of only talk if we have to talk or if we're asked questions, and we lose the art of small talk.
Roger Phillips: I understand, you only talk when you really have to.
Eddie Grayley:... have to, so whenever we're in a group of people who are all at small talk, we are lost in a way. So that's part of what's happening, amongst others. Now, one of them is getting up in front of a number of other people and being prepared for people to ask them questions and they answer the questions hopefully.
Roger Phillips: So that's just two samples of a variety of different things that are going on.
Eddie Grayley: There's a load of things.
Roger Phillips: Is it national, I mean is it just for people on Merseyside or in Liverpool, or is it people all over the country who will be coming to this?
Eddie Grayley: Well in the past they've held them in other parts of the country. Now this, I believe, is the first time we're having it in Liverpool, and that's all to students persuading the BSA to have it here.
Roger Phillips: That's the British Stammerers Association.
Eddie Grayley: That's the one, yes.
Roger Phillips: Good, so...
Eddie Grayley: Now, the conference ... I interrupted you, I apologise.
Roger Phillips: No you didn't. No, go on.
Eddie Grayley: ... is being held at the Hope University.
Roger Phillips: That's what I was going to ask you, you read my mind. It's the Hope University. And it starts on the Friday, it runs through with including the children on the Sunday to the end of the Sunday. Now there are people who may be listening who maybe stammer and are stuck at home and have never ... they don't know about the Willy Russell Centre or if they did they didn't want to go, but they begin to think, "Mm, I might like just to go, even though I sit at the back and say nothing, just meet some other people, see what goes on." Can they do that? How do they do it? Is there a number to ring or what?
Eddie Grayley: There is.
Stuart Ford: I've got a few numbers, Roger, perhaps if I leave them in reception.
Roger Phillips: Right...
[Ed. note: the radio station number which was given to ring is omitted here. All details given in this interview are of course for the Liverpool 2001 conference. For details of any current BSA conference please contact BSA or see our events page.]
... Now does it cost?
Stuart Ford: Well, it's £85 for the whole weekend, that includes accomodation and three meals a day. There's special rates for the Sunday which we haven't negotiated yet. There's going to be 35 workshops in fact, and the two people featured on the programme last night, the Starfish Project and the Michael Palin Centre have both been invited and accepted our invitations. They will be there as well.
Roger Phillips: So a whole range of experts as well as stammerers there to exchange views.
Stuart Ford: Indeed.
Roger Phillips: And there will be a social ... I know I was joking about ... it's important that that happens.
Stuart Ford: Oh there are, yes, there's two bars at Hope University, a noisy bar where there's going to be a band, and there's going to be a karaoke night as well. I did a karaoke at the last one, never sung before in public and they couldn't get me off the stage ...[laughter]...
Eddie Grayley: He loves it.
Stuart Ford: ... and nobody stammers when they sing.
Roger Phillips: The only thing worries me slightly is the £85 is a lot of money for somebody who's on benefits or something like that.
Stuart Ford: Well, I'm ... would you like to take that Eddie?
Eddie Grayley: Ah yes, we would like to have sponsorship from anyone who has plenty of money. Mainly it's for people who are unemployed, low wage, or students. Now we feel it's unfair for those people, if they haven't got the money to come and they would like to come. We are hoping to get enough cash to pay part of it if not all of it for the people who can't afford ...
Roger Phillips: Same number again then, if anybody can help out with sponsorship, if you ring [..........] and we'll pass them on to you. And I hope very much somebody comes, because it is right that people whatever their financial background should be able to attend this. It's going to be an important conference. And it's going to bring some trade into the city as well so it's good on that as well. Thanks to you all for talking to us and very good to speak to you, thanks very much indeed.
Various: Thank you, Roger. Cheers.
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